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Tuesday, July 24, 2007

spoiled


ah well ... we knew the hammer would fall eventually.


goodnight, sweet prince.


you fucked us over good.

93 comments:

CyclistRick said...

If VeloNews is correct in their report that the whole Astana team has withdrawn, that shakes things up a bit.

When will these guys learn .....

shawndoggy said...

Another A sample only conviction. Tarred and feathered in the press before lab results are even confirmed.

Cycling is a mess. I'm not defending the dopers, but I can't look to the UCI as a light in the fog either.

Credibility of the whole euro-pro-racer-machine = 0.

In America we shall remain a fringey fringe sport for middle aged amateur white guys. For better or worse, no reasonable parent is gonna want his kid to grow up to be a pro cyclist.

And maybe that's for the best.

Anonymous said...

It just goes to show that the best and most honest racing is here on our shores after all.

Anonymous said...

Was Vino's test by the same lab that mishandled Floyd's samples?

giovanni said...

ouch. that hurts.

hard to believe. no-one was more scrutinized then them. More testing, more media, more denials.

Chris said...

Holy fucking fuck! I am in the middle of the woods on my mtb. Why does the crazy shit happen during playtime?

Hooptie said...

Bummer, Vino was my favorite. Didn't Astana just ink a 10 year sponsorship deal? What's worse for Kazakhstan, Boart, or Vino's positive?

Brent said...

dang. thats sad.

Anonymous said...

UCI should pull all men's pro teams from competing in all grand tours and classics in 2008, and host the same events with only pro women competing. (Of course the same teams could sponsor women's teams if they wanted) That'd send a message to clean up the sport fast- plus we'd get to see Shelley kickin' major ass on the cobbles! It'd do two good things for the sport...but wishful thinking!

nosajpalnud said...

Guess Astana won't be making that 10 year commitment after all.

"It just goes to show that the best and most honest racing is here on our shores after all" - you've got to be kidding....

Anonymous said...

Kloden's reaction will be interesting. If he doesn't pitch a huge fit about the news, we can assume he's dirty as well.

CyclistRick said...

Anonymous - yes, the same lab, Chatenay-Malabry. The transcripts from the Floyd trial show they are poorly trained, have little concept of science, and have no use for standard protocols. But, this is a relatively simple test, and about the only way it can be screwed up is if two samples get mixed together. Not out of the realm of possibility.

But, one has to wonder why Astana immediated 'accepted the offer to withdraw' from the organizers. If they thought it was procedural, one would hope they would stay and fight.

Anonymous said...

They are all Dirty! They need to hit the NRC also

drugssuck said...

won't assume everyoneis clean in N. America either. although it is safe to say that none of the continental bunch can afford the good stuff.

take a look around at other sports. a crisis bigger then just cycling... Golf now. WWF wrestlers road raging and kiling there family. Football players dieing of brain tumors from roids. baseball. track and field. I read some statistics once that made seam clear that cycling had the biggest problem... but def not the only problem.

Jeremy T. Arnold said...

I just wish I actually had faith in the tests and testers.

This is not good Maverick. This is not good.

Brent said...

i think millars comment says it best:

from SI:
"With a guy of his stature and class, in cycling's current situation, we might as well pack our bags and go home," said British rider David Millar, who came back from a two-year doping ban in the Tour last year.

California Giant Cycling said...

Dumbasses should just eat Strawberries instead!!

dr-nitro said...

This is a professional sports problem. The attraction of money and glory leads to addiction. And yes, this is a serious addiction problem. For fuck sake, you have to be a junkie to think that you would not be caught for a blood transfusion. Getting around EPO, testy, hgh is possible, but someone else's blood.

I fear, though, that this might have something to do with the medical attention he received for his wounds. If that is the case, it leads to more doubt.


Strip all pro licenses, and start fresh. The culture is too screwed up.

WarrenG said...

And people wonder why Levi and Cadel don't attack... Try racing clean in the Tour and see how many useful attacks you can make. You must pick your battle very carefully. A month ago it was learned that Wednesday would be best.

Anonymous said...

Any time there is money involved, or any sort of benefit, or pressure to perform, there will be cheating. Sports, business, academics, government, organized religion, anything. Remember the scandal in 1992 at the US Naval Academy where cadets were cheating on tests? And this year at the Air Force Adademy, same thing. It is a chronic problem at colleges and high schools. And I won't even mention Enron... Thinking that we can eliminate cheating is like thinking that we can eliminate any other form of crime. Ain't gonna happen.

chatterbox said...

ugh. 'Nuf said.

dr-nitro said...

I've said it before, you will not get rid of cheating. However, the culture and system needs to be changed so as not to actually encourage it. I think that things are heading in that direction, but the old culture is still there, and culture takes time to change. If things are heading in the right direction, then this can send a signal to the rational athlete that the costs outweigh the benefits. Cheaters will always think that they can get away with it, thus there will always be news of cheaters getting caught if the system is working. And as I've said before, it is hard to tell these days if news of a positive test is a good thing, showing that the system catches cheats, or a bad thing, showing that the sport is ripe with cheaters.

Anonymous said...

N American scene is not any better, or haven't you noticed.

The 3% that might be clean in a Grand Tour are fighting for Lantern Rouge.

Attack?! Levi just plain sucks.

pedro said...

hello people... they're all doing it! some of you sound shocked and disappointed. weird.

Nome Agusta said...

I am shocked and disappointed.

But honestly I think Olaf just manufactured this whole story just so his blog would get a boat load of attention.

Velo Bella said...

homologous blood transfusion? Could it get more eastern block?

Jeez.

shawndoggy said...

And Lindsay Lohan gets popped again on the same day. Can this sports and entertainment double whammy be coincidence?

banks said...

Couldn't be more disheartened than I am right now.

It's time for mandatory DNA testing to supplement or supplant current testing systems. The next drugs coming out, from what I've read, are designer gene modifiers.

UCI should take blood, hair or whatever is the most telling bodily source sample when athletes apply for a pro license. UCI should match samples against the previous year's when athletes renew their license. Random samples should be taken during season and off-season.

That program is just off the top of my head, and it's probably not infallible. But the point is UCI needs to devise a system that's ahead of the cheating curve as of right now. It's the classic situation of a penny spent now saves a dollar later.

In a year or two I'm sure someone will figure out how to beat the system. But in the meantime, maybe fans, sponsors and organizers will get used to seeing atheletes perform at human levels and maybe the incentives for cheating won't be as great after a year or two of clean competition. (pollyanna, I know, but what else is there?)

Did anyone see Linus' face at the end of a recent stage (I wish I remember the number). He had drool coming out of the sides of his mouth, his shoulders slumped after hitting the line. He looked exhausted.

I'm not saying he's not cheating too (cynicism is my default position now), but exhausted is how a normal human should look after five or six hours in the saddle climbing over a couple of Cat 1s and HCs.

My word of the year -- Demoralizing!!!!

Anonymous said...

I hope no one is actually surprised this mumbling kazahk fucktard tested non-neggo. The only thing surprising and frankly downright odd, is that it was a homologous transfusion. The guys still doping would be strictly "autologging", an autologous transfusion.

And for those of you that think Levi "sucks" and should "attack"...

WAkE the fuck up, these guys are at the endth degree of their limits. They would probably rather lay down on the melting tarmac - have their heads slowly cracked open with a medium sized hammer and the contents slowly eaten out by a medium sized pack of pyrenean red ants- then to continue on up those mountains. But they do - those HARD-CORE non-blog-bEtching bastards press the feck on.

put that dank ass shit in your pipe and smoke it

-Sincerely

Tyler Hamiltons Chimeras chamois

funkdaddy said...

Godammit this has been a tough morning - first the news that Bear Grylls sleeps in Hotels and now Vino's on the juice...

The terrible thing is, part of me doesn't want to know this kind of stuff - but when we start thinking like that, we become part of the problem.

But...it made some damn fine TV.

I'm talking about Vino, not Bear.

Well at least now the Tour is clean. Let the racing begin...

bbElf (a.k.a. panda) said...

Bear is a pussy.

Nome Agusta said...

Based on some recent rumors flying around undisclosed and questionably credible media sources, the blood Vino used could very well have been Olaf's.

dr-nitro said...

A decade ago, it was wink wink, they're all on it, but who cares. We can't keep up that attitude, and the anti-doping regimen is certainly world's ahead of what it was then. Doping is still prevalent, but the effects have been marginalized. The attitude and culture need to change, to further marginalize it, and to separate the cheaters from those who just desperately want to compete.

Anonymous said...

than


-T.H.C.C

CyclistRick said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dr-nitro said...

From nytimes

Race director Christian Prudhomme said the case showed that cycling's drug-testing system doesn't work.

''It's an absolute failure of the system,'' he said. ''It is a system which does not defend the biggest race in the world. This is a system which can't last.''


Selfish, stupid prick. The German fed let Sinkewitz race when he was suspect. The Danish one let the Chicken race when he was also suspect. However, this probably took place during the Tour. This shows that it works. Does he think that the anti-doping controls need to be able to see into the future. Only looking after himself, and tearing up his own self interest in the process.

Hooptie said...

People certainly seemed more mortal in this years tour, I have seen more cracking and suffer-faces than ever before. I am as pessimistic as it gets about doping...but do believe it’s getting better, especially in the US...The big wins are evenly spread across teams, the BJM’s and Svein Tufts have risen up.

I like the idea of no Pro Tour mens racing for a year!

jAndy donka-donk said...

bummer

Chris said...

Ugh. This makes me want to take my attentions elsewhere. Rec league softball? Bowling? Darts?

Anonymous said...

Mike Vick
Tim Donagy
Vinokourov
Lindsey Lohan
Iraq

This world is so disappointing...

Anonymous said...

Certain riders in the US do not go up hill as fast as they are going this year. It was funny to see USADA in PA testing all the masters, elites, women and juniors. Why because they work and have jobs so they could afford the dope? Go Test the winners and randoms at every other NRC event or Pro tour event in North America, that where they need to be.

Anonymous said...

next "sport" to be caught....

Poker!

Vino's coach is who? One guess and if you get it right, Olaf will give you a flower for your helmet...

that's right, Lance's own Ferrari.

interesting...

Pro-Ho...

Anonymous said...

H! Cycling is about getting getting a bad ass bike racer to roll around the city with goofy vintage close on vintage bikes, it's about bucking hay bails and stringing tape. it's about racing in a dress and get your design team working on your next "Halloween cross outfit, it's about racing a crit ona bike with downshifters because the dork next to you has electric shifters, it's going for a ride on your road bike and spending the whole ride in the dirt and prtaging muddy creeks, it's about riding the next day with way too much fermented honey in your sytem.

i mean sky blue and yellow, Are they High who thought that sceme up?

"baka Vini! Durock!
By, By Vini. Fool!

Grey said...

i also have a hard time believing people are shocked after astana's massive pwnage of the dauphine. reminded one of festina's domination of the '97 tour with a variety of riders winning stages. not to imply that the team is systematically doping for sure...just sayin'.

definitely bummed that a rider so fun to watch as vino is gone...but wasn't really believing it anyway...

Dennis said...

I really thought Vino's ride reminded Roid Flandis' miracle ride last year....
I wonder how long before CXers start getting busted regularly.
I think I may have to move on to Rock, Paper, Scissors as my sport.
Just a bunch of dopes not on dope... or who cares if they were
http://www.worldrps.com

Chris said...

bad-ass, clothes, bales, on a, portaging, system, scheme,


poka, durak

Anonymous said...

VINO IS A DOPE! A A-HOLE CHEAT AND HE FOOLED YOU ALL!

Anonymous said...

Women are just as big dopes!

Anonymous said...

Hey in the last babble Nome said Vino was going to now go for stage wins, what a idiot Nome is.

Anonymous said...

Bring it back to fun domestic talk! Toona is underway and Webcor rocked the TTT, the only female team to finish with 6 or more of their riders, 8 secs ahead of A-strong's Tea gals!

My bet is they dominate today's outtanback hilly-willy race being that pretty much everyone on that squad can crush 'dem bumps.

d3cycling said...

I wonder where Mr. Godefroot is hiding now? That is a quote i would like to hear...

CyclistRick said...

Hmmm, now Patrice Clerc is saying of The Chicken:

Clerc was also asked about Rasmussen's participation, given his warnings from the UCI for repeatedly failing to record his whereabouts for anti-doping purposes. Clerc said Rasmussen should not have been allowed to race in the Tour, saying the Dane "did not serve as a good example."

"In a period of crisis such as we are living in at the moment, a champion must be a good example," said Clerc. "His attitude, his lack of respect shown to the administrative rules, which is unacceptable, should be made known to us and we would have refused his participation, because he is not a good role model for the others in the peloton."

Anonymous said...

Hey All!
Wanna have some fun? Look in your own backyard!
Check your local rankings, and take notice of that guy/girl who you were whuppin' ass on last year. Now, this year, they not only whupped you in the same category, but they moved up a category or two, and they also finish in the top five or so all the time now! I'd love to give you the names, but that would spoil the game for you. Go, play for yourself, and open your eyes.
If you think that shit doesn't go on here, you're an idiot.

Anonymous said...

Anon-
i think that's a huge paranoid jump: with my own racing i've made leaps both in placings and moving quickly up the ranks/categories whereas last year i did well but nothing to write home about.

and that's b/c i actually took the time to learn more about the sport, how to race smarter and train more effectively (it's amazing what just simple sprint intervals twice a week can do for your fast-twitches and cardio, for example, or tailoring workouts to fit the upcoming race terrain) whereas last year i just rode the same everyday (hard). this is a sport where tailored training and increased brain exercise pays off big time.

that's not to say there couldn't be some crappy things going on (olaf's voice is purty high!), but to say that great (honest) improvement doesn't happen is ridiculous.

WarrenG said...

I see local riders making a big jump in performance one year to the next, but their circumstances are normally quite different from a full-time pro.

A local rider might have more time to train than previously, less off-the-bike stress, a renewed motivation, or maybe they got a coach who showed them how to train (and race) smarter.

And some cheat.

jAndy donka-donk said...

I haven't been here long, but I have known quite a few guys that were taking beatings from me, and then beat me up the year after....

And I know for a fact it was because they took their heads out of their asses......

Take it from someone that can ride at the local top level and then gets a good one handed to them at the national level, that you do not even consider doping until you try to bang heads at the top level and start looking for shortcuts to the even slower progression of being competitive at that level.....

blood doping and EPO aren't used for the Cat 5-2 local upgrades. You can ride the valley ride once a week and win local Cat 3 races.....

You just made my Nick Weiss list... blaming dope for your losses in the local field....

PAB(a.k.a.CID) said...

holy crap!

i'm away from a computer for just a few hours and all hell breaks loose!

i must need mobile blogging tech.

wait, did i say that?

Olaf Vanderhoot said...

jayzus ... you ain't kiddin', jeffe.

go to a few meetings and come back to mayhem.


but wait, JAndy ... you get your ass handed to you on the local scene, too.

bwwaaahahahahahaaa...

Phipps said...

Maybe I'm naive, or an idiot, but I don't believe that anyone I race against is taking any performance enhancing drugs. It's real sad that the prevalence of drugs in the pro ranks causes many amateurs to question anyone who beats them in a local race.

jAndy donka-donk said...

I had to lose a bit this year, so that everyone didn't think I was a doper.....

no worries, I have been storing my blood all year for re transfusion during next years hood and gila....

that and I suck so it wont matter anyway....

I really have been getting a beating this year, thanks for reminding me. I have been contemplating a retirement until I am 35, ha...

Olaf Vanderhoot said...

doh! bastard ...

another dig about my age.


... you'll get yours, junkatrunk!
-


and Chris, i just think alot of people are on stupid-pills. who knows, maybe it's easy to get performance enhancers and maybe some are doing it ... but, who cares?

and they ask why i where a flower in my helmet?

nosajpalnud said...

does red wine, single malt and ice cream count as PEDs....

funkdaddy said...

like with most addictions, cycling is going to have to hit rock bottom before it gets cleaned up...

...and we're not even close to that.

Chris said...

Did you drink a Gatorade after the last race?

Smoke a joint before hopping in the sack with that lover?

Drop two hits before hiking out of the Bob Marshall wilderness in an August morning thunderstorm, thunder cracking just as you peaked?

Put more oxygen in your blood so you could claw back at the raging demons in your heart in the race up that hill?

The whole culture enhances its performance. All performances.

We teach this to our children.

It's what makes things tolerable and understandable and fun and worth doing.

Ever watch Koyanisqaatsi?

Try it on a shot of espresso. Try it on a bong hit.

There's a difference.

Even observation is performance. The act of doing something, of accomplishing a task. Of sparking your own mind.

And it's illegal because it's an arbitrary line.

Shrug. Smile. Stay mute.

You do it in the small, workaday fashion of a killer shot of Starbuck's just after the 10 am lull.

Makes you think faster, talk smarter, stick widgets on sticks better.

Maybe Vino did it.

Did you love him yesterday before you knew? Is it the transgression of that line that appalls you?

Or is it that you learned he is human too, and needs a boost to reach the cookie jar atop the fridge?

It's an open question. It takes time to answer.

WarrenG said...

Ferrari himself once said that using epo to be a pro bike racer is akin to a trucker taking amphetamines so they can do more work and make more money. And for some riders, those two professions are the choice they have. Will this hurt me more than going to a smoky French restaurant for dinner once a week? Not if used properly.

Ullrich spoke his truth when he said, "I never cheated the other riders."

To find the riders who think doping is cheating you have to find the riders who view cycling as a sport, and themselves as sportsmen playing the game as such. Achieving whatever level of success they can without doping, and being okay with that. Look for riders with a consistent, or slightly improving performance from year to year (barring injury, illness, or bad coaching advice). They are rarely mentioned as being any kind of a surprise in the results, because we have seen them near that place before.

But from inside information, there is extreme pressure on many/most teams to elevate performance if not for oneself, then for the good of the team and sponsors. It is also helpful if all the main riders are involved, so that any one of them is less likely to speak out. And you don't want to get run off the road at the wrong time.

Velo Bella said...

I am going to withhold all judgement until I hear what Greg Lemond has to say about this

Velo Bella said...

Doping, if not used correctly (the kind of use that most riders can afford), is exceptionally dangerous.

It cannot be compared to drinking Gatorade or expresso.

Accidentally getting the wrong bag of blood can kill you. Expresso just gives you the poops.

And perhaps thats what happened to Vino? Not the expresso induced poops, but a bag switch. Homologous doping is too detectible for anyone with Vino's resources to consider it I would think. Instead, someone probably got the Sidi boxes mixed up.

lauren said...

ONCE -> Liberty Seguros -> Astana

Manolo Saiz was involved with all three, and he's implicated in Operacion Puerto. (Johan Bruyneel rode for Manolo on ONCE.)

CyclistRick said...

And perhaps thats what happened to Vino? Not the expresso induced poops, but a bag switch.

VB - I am surprised when you said this you did not mention another prominent bag switch epsiode: think 2004 Vuelta. Yep, homologous blood doping is dangerous, and usually the result of carelessness/stupidity; the real doping was supposed to be autologous.

Nome Agusta said...

I said Vino would go for stage wins, I didn't say he would do it cleanly.

He did go for stage wins, he just cheated to do it. Maybe you are the idiot.
BTW: Was attacking me really necessary anyway? Did it make you feel better? Mr. too chicken to give your identity.

WarrenG said...

To prevent mix-ups when multiple bags are transported together, maybe the bags should be labeled with some kind of code name for the rider. "Abby-something. Abby...normal."

jAndy donka-donk said...

kick his ass... seabass....

I am waiting to find out what Lemond will say to Vino on the phone tonight...

maaan if vino came clean, Mother Russia would have to go back to the drawing board....

Velo Bella said...

I'd hate to see Lemond's phone bill.

PAB(a.k.a.CID) said...

warren, i think that line might be from an era that is too old for many of the kids on this blog...

shame, cus its an all time classic.

Anonymous said...

Nome you are the attacker, we just follow you.

Anonymous said...

People use drugs even though it is wrong and bad for themselves. People use performance enhancing drugs even if it is wrong and bad for them selves. It happens locally and on the big level too. I know it happens on all levels locally, just not as major as the big time level of racing but it does happen, even in Cat 3 races. People get drunk, and drive drunk and this is bad for themselves and for others, but they still do it. It is the same fuckin thing as doping. Eevryone who gets blitzed and drunk off of fine wine and good beer is no better then someone who dopes, they are all doing stupid things to feel good.

It happens on all levels and it has been this way for as long as man kind has been walking around.

jAndy donka-donk said...

you are sooo right....

I am going to dope for Cal Cup now...

wonder how much EPO I can get for a Velo Promo T-shirt.....

Anonymous said...

Past winner of some of those races have used EPO stupid, just ask Dave Fuentes, who got caught using EPO after he won a fairly high ranking race, and some local races. he was banned for his EPO taking and he also competed in Cal Cup races that same time period. He knows of others who, like him, took EPO. It is lame people like you who make light of this and keep the status the same. I am thinking you will either have a beer or a bong hit soon, and think nothing of it as you get buzzed. It happens on your level, and at the top levels of the world too. It is all the same, it is the human race, and you are just one of the monkeys in the crowd.

dr-nitro said...

What's your point, anon, that people cheat. So. The question is whether it is endemic, or simply that there are cheaters out there. While I would not be surprised that there are idiots that dope to win a Velo Promo race, but they probably would lose anyway. Your example is someone who got busted for a big race, and happened to have done the Cal Cup.

But again, what's your point? Should we abolish all forms of competition because people will cheat. Should anyone who performs at any level be suspect because they performed well? That's a sad statement, but hey, I've clearly doped because I've done well.

The problem is not endemic here, because the doping culture is not that of Europe, and most cyclists here have a backup. That is not to say that we should not have controls, and that the issue should not be raised. But saying that it is not endemic here is not the same as putting my head in the sand. When people make it more of a problem than it is, then it actually creates an incentive to cheat, since people will think that that is how it works.

broxster said...

Fuentes tested positive for a steroid: USA Cycling press release.

Also locally, Adam Sbeih tested positive for EPO and Stephen Alfred for T/E ratio > 4:1.

US ADA sanctions list.

There are roughly 4000 racers in the NCNCA area - how many of them are tested each year? I am guessing only a couple of hundred at most at the biggest races.

This would mean 3 positive results out of something like at most 700-800 doping controls (4 years, 200 controls each year), or well below a 1% positive test rate.

Is that a high or small rate?

broxster said...

Crap - links didn't work.

http://usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=1425

and

http://www.usantidoping.org/what/management/sanctions.aspx

WarrenG said...

The real question for J-Donk is how much epo will you need in order to get a VP T-shirt.

WarrenG said...

The assumptions about rider testing in NCNCA are not correct. Of the 4000 riders, maybe 20 or 30 ever place high enough in a big race that even says they have testing. Then the question is whether the sample is even tested or just flushed. And then, how much money will be spent for the test, i.e. how thorough will the test be? Do you think Fuentes only took steroids for the race where he was caught? What about all of the other big races where he stole thousands of dollars but wasn't caught?

Casey said...

Dr-Nitro

Hate to say I know of a case ( from many, many years ago) of a rider who took a recreational type drug before a twilight race. This rider went out and lapped the field on that night. Of course the drug he took kept him from feeling the pain as his knee was torn apart from the big effort he put in to lap the field. In the end his racing career was pretty much ended due to the damage to his knee. Did this rider take the drug to help win a twilight? Was the rider just goofing around and doing something stupid? People will always do stupid things for stupid reasons.

dr-nitro said...

Casey, I'm not saying that this kind of stuff does not happen. But your example does not provide evidence that doping is endemic here, or that it is part of the culture. Quite the contrary, it sounds more like a stupid action.

I've spoken with people who've gone to Belgium to try the racing scene there. Apparently, it's the norm to head to the doc's shop if you want to do well in a local Belgium Kermesse. It's part of the culture there.

And as I've said, if doping controls work, we will see positive tests. But how can we differentiate when a positive test is a sign that the system is working, or when it signals that there is an endemic problem?

My serious racing days were in the early 90s. I did not take dope to make it from a 3 to a 1 in six months. And while I did not conduct any tests on them (they were certainly tested), I knew some phenomenal U.S. cyclists, pro and national team members, who were clean. My best evidence was that they turned down opportunities to go to Europe because they did not want to race in a drug filled environment. There were also rumors of idiots in the states that were on dope, but that was the exception, not the rule.

My point is, finding that that there are cheaters in a sport does not mean that the sport is corrupt. And in this case, finding that there are idiots doping up for Velo Promo races does not mean that it takes dope to win Copperopolis (unless your name is Michael Hernandez). So I don't understand why people here are spouting off and saying that cheating takes place. The problem is in the cultural Euro pro peleton, but I do think that things are moving in the right direction.

dr-nitro said...

I should say that the Belgium example was from about 15 years ago. One could hope that it is changing there, but who knows.

glennzgarage said...

I really wanted to see a new Hellyer flying-lap record this last weekend... because of the history behind the existing record. And this IS local. Yet, whodaheckami to pass judgement, or to expect I won't be dissappointed by a fresher scene? I plead for all to train, and ride honest, then pass that integrity onto the next generation.

Casey said...

While I agree that the drug abuse culture is and has been much stronger in europe ( where riders have more to gain from success) there is also a drug abuse culture in US cycling. Least we forget the 84 Olympics which brought us "Mono", "Chinese herbs" and blood boosting. Also the stories about riders who suddenly have to leave colorado springs in the middle of the night, or the middle of a training ride just hours before an "unannounced" drug test occurred.

Generally since there is little in the way of fame or fortune to gain in US cycling there is less incentive to do drugs. Still, unfortunately, there are people who do seek out the illegal advantage in US cycling probably at all levels. After all look at the amount of money riders will spend trying to get the legal advantages of the newest and best equipment or the newest supplements.

shawndoggy said...

Funny, but I'll betcha if you want to find the highest proportion of "dopers" in the NCNCA field you should look no farther than the masters 4-5 fields. Testosterone, HGH, steroids... all have their place in modern medical treatment. Your average 35+ 4-5 rider with asthma is not seeking an in competition waiver for validly prescribed drugs, whether or not they are on the WADA list. Chances are they don't even know it's a violation.

I asked Casey about this several years ago, and he said that to his knowledge no non-elite cyclist in the NCNCA had ever applied for an in competition waiver. Given the average demographic of those 4000 licensed riders in the NCNCA, to think that none of them are using banned substances (whether or not with the knowledge that the substance in question is banned or with the intent to enhance cycling performance) is naive.

Should there be a "well he/she still sucks" exception?

This of course doesn't even count the fact that rec. drugs are also on the wada banned list (remember Jan and the X or that downhiller who was positive for MJ at Norba Nats a couple of years ago?). Are all 4000 of those NCNCA racers reefer free? If you think so, I've got this sweet bridge I'll make you a deal on....

jAndy donka-donk said...

I know I am a day late and all...

but the discussion started on Cat 5-2 upgrade doping from the anon....

Now I will agree with the potential dirty in the big races and even some lingering dirt when the racer races some local stuff after they juiced it up for a big event....

but a Cat 4 doping in the off season to get his 3 the next year was a lil stretch for my imagination.....

WarrenG said...

Shawndoggy, What is an "in competition waiver" that you speak of? I know of no such thing. If you are talking about a Theraputic Use Exemption (TUE), I get them each year only because I might be tested at masters nat's or worlds. And I know other riders from NCNCA that have, or have had them for the same reason.

I don't think Casey would have access to knowledge about which riders have TUE's unless they told him. Probably a privacy issue. The TUE's are kept on file at the USADA and the UCI.

WarrenG said...

When Max Testa was still at UC Davis Sportsmedicine he would occasionally get a phone call from somebody asking, in a roundabout way, how to use hGH as part of athletic training. He would mention that not only does hGH speed the growth of muscle cells and maybe enhance recovery, it can also speed the growth of cancer cells. And then he would hang up.

shawndoggy said...

Correct, TUE. Thanks for correcting my error! And thanks for sharing that people actually get them.