tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post2191104331609472839..comments2023-11-02T05:10:10.710-07:00Comments on gone to norcalcyclingnews.com: spoilednorcalcyclingnews.comhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14663837359225799079noreply@blogger.comBlogger93125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-64306384400708363932007-07-25T17:06:00.000-07:002007-07-25T17:06:00.000-07:00Correct, TUE. Thanks for correcting my error! An...Correct, TUE. Thanks for correcting my error! And thanks for sharing that people actually get them.shawndoggyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10289676804569678786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-47059254624788892082007-07-25T12:12:00.000-07:002007-07-25T12:12:00.000-07:00When Max Testa was still at UC Davis Sportsmedicin...When Max Testa was still at UC Davis Sportsmedicine he would occasionally get a phone call from somebody asking, in a roundabout way, how to use hGH as part of athletic training. He would mention that not only does hGH speed the growth of muscle cells and maybe enhance recovery, it can also speed the growth of cancer cells. And then he would hang up.WarrenGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524271078611979940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-56131559909274721582007-07-25T12:05:00.000-07:002007-07-25T12:05:00.000-07:00Shawndoggy, What is an "in competition waiver" tha...Shawndoggy, What is an "in competition waiver" that you speak of? I know of no such thing. If you are talking about a Theraputic Use Exemption (TUE), I get them each year only because I might be tested at masters nat's or worlds. And I know other riders from NCNCA that have, or have had them for the same reason. <BR/><BR/>I don't think Casey would have access to knowledge about which riders have TUE's unless they told him. Probably a privacy issue. The TUE's are kept on file at the USADA and the UCI.WarrenGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524271078611979940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-85886165098286913642007-07-25T10:33:00.000-07:002007-07-25T10:33:00.000-07:00I know I am a day late and all...but the discussio...I know I am a day late and all...<BR/><BR/>but the discussion started on Cat 5-2 upgrade doping from the anon....<BR/><BR/>Now I will agree with the potential dirty in the big races and even some lingering dirt when the racer races some local stuff after they juiced it up for a big event....<BR/><BR/>but a Cat 4 doping in the off season to get his 3 the next year was a lil stretch for my imagination.....jAndy donka-donkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09970606604235245745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-77730615731167801682007-07-25T10:32:00.000-07:002007-07-25T10:32:00.000-07:00Funny, but I'll betcha if you want to find the hig...Funny, but I'll betcha if you want to find the highest proportion of "dopers" in the NCNCA field you should look no farther than the masters 4-5 fields. Testosterone, HGH, steroids... all have their place in modern medical treatment. Your average 35+ 4-5 rider with asthma is not seeking an in competition waiver for validly prescribed drugs, whether or not they are on the WADA list. Chances are they don't even know it's a violation.<BR/><BR/>I asked Casey about this several years ago, and he said that to his knowledge no non-elite cyclist in the NCNCA had ever applied for an in competition waiver. Given the average demographic of those 4000 licensed riders in the NCNCA, to think that none of them are using banned substances (whether or not with the knowledge that the substance in question is banned or with the intent to enhance cycling performance) is naive.<BR/><BR/>Should there be a "well he/she still sucks" exception? <BR/><BR/>This of course doesn't even count the fact that rec. drugs are also on the wada banned list (remember Jan and the X or that downhiller who was positive for MJ at Norba Nats a couple of years ago?). Are all 4000 of those NCNCA racers reefer free? If you think so, I've got this sweet bridge I'll make you a deal on....shawndoggyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10289676804569678786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-48056930552050309732007-07-25T09:32:00.000-07:002007-07-25T09:32:00.000-07:00While I agree that the drug abuse culture is and h...While I agree that the drug abuse culture is and has been much stronger in europe ( where riders have more to gain from success) there is also a drug abuse culture in US cycling. Least we forget the 84 Olympics which brought us "Mono", "Chinese herbs" and blood boosting. Also the stories about riders who suddenly have to leave colorado springs in the middle of the night, or the middle of a training ride just hours before an "unannounced" drug test occurred. <BR/><BR/>Generally since there is little in the way of fame or fortune to gain in US cycling there is less incentive to do drugs. Still, unfortunately, there are people who do seek out the illegal advantage in US cycling probably at all levels. After all look at the amount of money riders will spend trying to get the legal advantages of the newest and best equipment or the newest supplements.Caseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10567730120399992677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-31482279704447717002007-07-25T03:58:00.000-07:002007-07-25T03:58:00.000-07:00I really wanted to see a new Hellyer flying-lap re...I really wanted to see a new Hellyer flying-lap record this last weekend... because of the history behind the existing record. And this IS local. Yet, whodaheckami to pass judgement, or to expect I won't be dissappointed by a fresher scene? I plead for all to train, and ride honest, then pass that integrity onto the next generation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-14058381842598351992007-07-24T21:08:00.000-07:002007-07-24T21:08:00.000-07:00I should say that the Belgium example was from abo...I should say that the Belgium example was from about 15 years ago. One could hope that it is changing there, but who knows.dr-nitrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17046521540356798995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-67336237778606651132007-07-24T21:07:00.000-07:002007-07-24T21:07:00.000-07:00Casey, I'm not saying that this kind of stuff does...Casey, I'm not saying that this kind of stuff does not happen. But your example does not provide evidence that doping is endemic here, or that it is part of the culture. Quite the contrary, it sounds more like a stupid action.<BR/><BR/>I've spoken with people who've gone to Belgium to try the racing scene there. Apparently, it's the norm to head to the doc's shop if you want to do well in a local Belgium Kermesse. It's part of the culture there. <BR/><BR/>And as I've said, if doping controls work, we will see positive tests. But how can we differentiate when a positive test is a sign that the system is working, or when it signals that there is an endemic problem?<BR/><BR/>My serious racing days were in the early 90s. I did not take dope to make it from a 3 to a 1 in six months. And while I did not conduct any tests on them (they were certainly tested), I knew some phenomenal U.S. cyclists, pro and national team members, who were clean. My best evidence was that they turned down opportunities to go to Europe because they did not want to race in a drug filled environment. There were also rumors of idiots in the states that were on dope, but that was the exception, not the rule. <BR/><BR/>My point is, finding that that there are cheaters in a sport does not mean that the sport is corrupt. And in this case, finding that there are idiots doping up for Velo Promo races does not mean that it takes dope to win Copperopolis (unless your name is Michael Hernandez). So I don't understand why people here are spouting off and saying that cheating takes place. The problem is in the cultural Euro pro peleton, but I do think that things are moving in the right direction.dr-nitrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17046521540356798995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-13754325458738155442007-07-24T20:56:00.000-07:002007-07-24T20:56:00.000-07:00Dr-NitroHate to say I know of a case ( from many, ...Dr-Nitro<BR/><BR/>Hate to say I know of a case ( from many, many years ago) of a rider who took a recreational type drug before a twilight race. This rider went out and lapped the field on that night. Of course the drug he took kept him from feeling the pain as his knee was torn apart from the big effort he put in to lap the field. In the end his racing career was pretty much ended due to the damage to his knee. Did this rider take the drug to help win a twilight? Was the rider just goofing around and doing something stupid? People will always do stupid things for stupid reasons.Caseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10567730120399992677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-38282030702289862007-07-24T20:17:00.000-07:002007-07-24T20:17:00.000-07:00The assumptions about rider testing in NCNCA are n...The assumptions about rider testing in NCNCA are not correct. Of the 4000 riders, maybe 20 or 30 ever place high enough in a big race that even says they have testing. Then the question is whether the sample is even tested or just flushed. And then, how much money will be spent for the test, i.e. how thorough will the test be? Do you think Fuentes only took steroids for the race where he was caught? What about all of the other big races where he stole thousands of dollars but wasn't caught?WarrenGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524271078611979940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-91230886345872462402007-07-24T20:06:00.000-07:002007-07-24T20:06:00.000-07:00The real question for J-Donk is how much epo will ...The real question for J-Donk is how much epo will you need in order to <I>get </I> a VP T-shirt.WarrenGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524271078611979940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-30988216128666923652007-07-24T20:05:00.000-07:002007-07-24T20:05:00.000-07:00Crap - links didn't work.http://usacycling.org/new...Crap - links didn't work.<BR/><BR/>http://usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=1425<BR/><BR/>and<BR/><BR/>http://www.usantidoping.org/what/management/sanctions.aspxbroxsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14084116389033958796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-50919891703220611422007-07-24T20:02:00.000-07:002007-07-24T20:02:00.000-07:00Fuentes tested positive for a steroid: USA Cyclin...Fuentes tested positive for a steroid: <A HTTP://USACYCLING.ORG/NEWS/USER/STORY.PHP?ID="1425"> USA Cycling press release</A>.<BR/><BR/>Also locally, Adam Sbeih tested positive for EPO and Stephen Alfred for T/E ratio > 4:1.<BR/><BR/><A HTTP://WWW.USANTIDOPING.ORG/WHAT/MANAGEMENT/SANCTIONS.ASPX> US ADA sanctions list</A>.<BR/><BR/>There are roughly 4000 racers in the NCNCA area - how many of them are tested each year? I am guessing only a couple of hundred at most at the biggest races.<BR/><BR/>This would mean 3 positive results out of something like at most 700-800 doping controls (4 years, 200 controls each year), or well below a 1% positive test rate.<BR/><BR/>Is that a high or small rate?broxsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14084116389033958796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-5306911442970744202007-07-24T18:55:00.000-07:002007-07-24T18:55:00.000-07:00What's your point, anon, that people cheat. So. Th...What's your point, anon, that people cheat. So. The question is whether it is endemic, or simply that there are cheaters out there. While I would not be surprised that there are idiots that dope to win a Velo Promo race, but they probably would lose anyway. Your example is someone who got busted for a big race, and happened to have done the Cal Cup.<BR/><BR/>But again, what's your point? Should we abolish all forms of competition because people will cheat. Should anyone who performs at any level be suspect because they performed well? That's a sad statement, but hey, I've clearly doped because I've done well. <BR/><BR/>The problem is not endemic here, because the doping culture is not that of Europe, and most cyclists here have a backup. That is not to say that we should not have controls, and that the issue should not be raised. But saying that it is not endemic here is not the same as putting my head in the sand. When people make it more of a problem than it is, then it actually creates an incentive to cheat, since people will think that that is how it works.dr-nitrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17046521540356798995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-17152189895181907212007-07-24T18:43:00.000-07:002007-07-24T18:43:00.000-07:00Past winner of some of those races have used EPO s...Past winner of some of those races have used EPO stupid, just ask Dave Fuentes, who got caught using EPO after he won a fairly high ranking race, and some local races. he was banned for his EPO taking and he also competed in Cal Cup races that same time period. He knows of others who, like him, took EPO. It is lame people like you who make light of this and keep the status the same. I am thinking you will either have a beer or a bong hit soon, and think nothing of it as you get buzzed. It happens on your level, and at the top levels of the world too. It is all the same, it is the human race, and you are just one of the monkeys in the crowd.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-84954022456362404722007-07-24T18:05:00.000-07:002007-07-24T18:05:00.000-07:00you are sooo right....I am going to dope for Cal C...you are sooo right....<BR/><BR/>I am going to dope for Cal Cup now...<BR/><BR/>wonder how much EPO I can get for a Velo Promo T-shirt.....jAndy donka-donkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09970606604235245745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-36671819664401243612007-07-24T17:59:00.000-07:002007-07-24T17:59:00.000-07:00People use drugs even though it is wrong and bad f...People use drugs even though it is wrong and bad for themselves. People use performance enhancing drugs even if it is wrong and bad for them selves. It happens locally and on the big level too. I know it happens on all levels locally, just not as major as the big time level of racing but it does happen, even in Cat 3 races. People get drunk, and drive drunk and this is bad for themselves and for others, but they still do it. It is the same fuckin thing as doping. Eevryone who gets blitzed and drunk off of fine wine and good beer is no better then someone who dopes, they are all doing stupid things to feel good.<BR/><BR/>It happens on all levels and it has been this way for as long as man kind has been walking around.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-4286178971641439752007-07-24T17:53:00.000-07:002007-07-24T17:53:00.000-07:00Nome you are the attacker, we just follow you.Nome you are the attacker, we just follow you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-21284427789117208672007-07-24T17:27:00.000-07:002007-07-24T17:27:00.000-07:00warren, i think that line might be from an era tha...warren, i think that line might be from an era that is too old for many of the kids on this blog...<BR/><BR/>shame, cus its an all time classic.PAB(a.k.a.CID)https://www.blogger.com/profile/17675058827155585125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-30436320122419521342007-07-24T16:10:00.000-07:002007-07-24T16:10:00.000-07:00I'd hate to see Lemond's phone bill.I'd hate to see Lemond's phone bill.Velo Bellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10478413071373565411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-30051606035923077732007-07-24T15:51:00.000-07:002007-07-24T15:51:00.000-07:00kick his ass... seabass....I am waiting to find ou...kick his ass... seabass....<BR/><BR/>I am waiting to find out what Lemond will say to Vino on the phone tonight...<BR/><BR/>maaan if vino came clean, Mother Russia would have to go back to the drawing board....jAndy donka-donkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09970606604235245745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-86177471787116502412007-07-24T15:26:00.000-07:002007-07-24T15:26:00.000-07:00To prevent mix-ups when multiple bags are transpor...To prevent mix-ups when multiple bags are transported together, maybe the bags should be labeled with some kind of code name for the rider. "Abby-something. Abby...normal."WarrenGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524271078611979940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-89503614926272462052007-07-24T15:23:00.000-07:002007-07-24T15:23:00.000-07:00I said Vino would go for stage wins, I didn't say ...I said Vino would go for stage wins, I didn't say he would do it cleanly.<BR/><BR/>He did go for stage wins, he just cheated to do it. Maybe you are the idiot. <BR/>BTW: Was attacking me really necessary anyway? Did it make you feel better? Mr. too chicken to give your identity.Ron Castiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02493157439510180124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7881625.post-76941485526281159792007-07-24T15:11:00.000-07:002007-07-24T15:11:00.000-07:00And perhaps thats what happened to Vino? Not the e...<I>And perhaps thats what happened to Vino? Not the expresso induced poops, but a bag switch.</I><BR/><BR/>VB - I am surprised when you said this you did not mention another prominent bag switch epsiode: think 2004 Vuelta. Yep, homologous blood doping is dangerous, and usually the result of carelessness/stupidity; the real doping was supposed to be autologous.Itinerant Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14507102777492877721noreply@blogger.com