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Thursday, July 27, 2006

who knows?

well ... hell.

i dunno.

- - -

Got forwarded a site called Now, this is an acidic bit of scribblin' going on - and, I'm not sure what to glean from mr. clean. I don't know how the person gets their info or how they choose to accuse, but in one of the posts was the following:

Raceclean doesn't smear people until we get tips from at least two distinct sources, and on top of that we use basic hunches and known associations to determine if we are getting decent info. Raceclean does not exist for racers to smear innocent peers for personal reasons. We don't even post a third of the riders who we have tips about or strong suspicions. [Saturday May 27, 2006]

I just dunno. The justice meter in me twinges a bit with this explanation. I just dunno.

- - -

Folks around my office are floating in and out of mine to ask/yak/gloat about The FLandis being popped. I just shrug my shoulders ... c'est la vie. They ask about why they dope. They talk about how they should just let them all dope since it happens anyway. They throw up hands and say the sport should be shut down until all the dopers are weeded out.

I just shrug my shoulders ... c'est la vie.

- - -

We might ask ourselves ... a more basic question on the nature of humans ~ do we choose to act rightly based on an internal drive to maintain goodness, or fear of retribution of being caught if we act wrongly?

In our whitey-mcWestern culture, I suppose it all goes back to that Hobbes vs Lockian debate on the inherent blueprint of the human mind - tabula rasa or beastly by nature? Do we need a fist threatening our straying from the path, or a golden chalise held out to grasp?


I just dunno.


shawndoggy said...

dang, did raceclean scoop me on Landis and corticosteroids?

In the immortal words of Morrissey, there's always someone somewhere with a big nose who knows, who'll trip you up and laugh when you fall.

X Bunny said...

it's a hard quesstion to answer because even some of those who maintain goodness based on an internal drive may actually be afraid of retribution if they act wrongly

it's a matter of whether the retribution is external or internal
and which is more feared

Eclectchick said...

You get extra points for using the term tabula rasa.

Superior final paragraph, Olaf. There's nothing like a good philosophical debate.

Yum - brain candy.

velogirl said...

I'll fess up. I run stop signs on my bike when no one's around. I stop when someone's might see me because I don't want someone's opinion of me (or cyclists in general) to be tainted.

When my father died, I had this overwhelming feeling that I needed to do the "right" thing. I felt him watching me. When my mother died, that feeling increased exponentially -- I didn't want them gossiping about me!

Am I drifting?

X Bunny said...

you know, with all the covert surveillance with cameras, satellites etc, someone is always looking!

Johnny Sprocket said...

Even if someone isn't looking, it's what you do at that exact moment that defines you. I don't think running a red light is the gateway to shooting tertosterone into your thigh. Not even close. As humans, we are frail. Being that close to the grail, be it Landis, or Bonds, or insert any other famous doper here, has to be an unbelievable temptation. I'm thankful that I have never been in that spot, and would like to think that I'd do the right thing, but I'll never know. As a parent, I'd come unglued if my kid made the wrong choice for a shot at the pie. Ole Lady Landis has to be upset and certain there's some burn time comin' for the boy. Sad, sad, sad.

marscat said...

intersting site that

Velo Bella said...

good or bad?

Let's go bad baby.

or maybe squeeze in just enough good, so we can go bad guilt free.

6:45? I have dibs on Johnny.

Then maybe later, a little congress of the golden chalice.

Kirkpatrick MacMillan said...

Now here I was thinking it was Rousseau v Locke representing the predisposition to good or evil.

In any event, I wish people would stop calling me to ask what I think of Landis. If they called to ask whether I thought man was naturally good or naturally evil that would be a whole different kettle o fish.

Ippoc Amic said...

...Rolo Tomasi...

Ed Exley, L.A. Confidential

velocycling said...

I just duno. I just dunno, either. Whenever I see or watch something I always have the question in the back of my head "If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is." You can lose a 100 pounds with no need to diet or exercise or be a millionaire while sitting on your couch.

Now to smash the peloton the very next day after having the worst bonk...
Historic, never been done before, add any other adjustive

The question keeps nagging at me

If it sounds to good to be true

Benjaminiac said...

i know i'm watching when i have important decisions to make, and i'll have to answer to me i i go down the evil path.

goody two-shoes?

no, you have to live with yourself.

I'm probably the only person here who gets drug tested (for their cycling, anyway) and you know what scares me the most? i would know i haven't done anything wrong, know i lived a clean and healthy life, test positive and have my life ruined.

every time i tinkle for them, it scares the shit out of me.

velogirl said...

Benjaminiac said...

every time i tinkle for them, it scares the shit out of me.

I know this is serious, but the unintended pun cracked me up. Tinkle and shit!

Seriously though, I think others can relate to what you feel, Ben. Has anyone ever been wrongly accused of something by a co-worker? And you know you're right, and maybe even your boss knows that too, but then you feel like a cloud is hanging over your head.

jAndy donka-donk said...

everytime I take a tinkle is scares the shit out of me too.....

cause there is always one of the older guys I work with next to me with that slow drip-squirt-drip-squirt-grunt-cry.....

And I am scared that some day my prostate will be so enlarged that I wont be able to tinkle the relieved way I do now......

marscat said...


Velojuice said...

It is hard to buy into the mentality. The vitriol may be jusified by some and our sport seems to be taking huge steps backward in terms of public interest. Especially in McAmerica. I want the sport cleaned up also, but outing people based on rumor, innuendo and "two sources" seems a little cloudy to me. I would like to see Floyd get a fair shake but that is all but gone now. Everyone was surprised at Tyler as well. So we will see. FYI real men don't tinkle, they take a wizz, a leak, water the lilies etc. but never tinkle.

Olaf Vanderhoot said...

i pee sitting down

marscat said...

you don't!

velogirl said...

Eeewww! I dated a guy for a while who peed sitting down. It really weirded me out.

jAndy donka-donk said...

Did you start pee'in standing up to even things out?

Benjaminiac said...

man i can usually barely get out enough to have them test. try peeing 5 minutes after the hardest effort you've taken in a while, see how manly your stream is.

drip, drip.

but no, i can't sit down, there's some dude who needs to see you do it: pants at your knees, shirt at your nipples. just staring. doesn't help either.

Olaf Vanderhoot said...

usually have to pay for that to happen

bbElf (a.k.a. panda) said...

You should take a tip jar in with you next time.

velocycling said...

One interesting thing dopers do is to drink excessive fluids to try and flush the system. Say 35 bottles worth, that is not a drip that is a flood

Anonymous said...

As far as BJM's comment is concerned... As an example, raceclean doesn't have phil zajicek up on the black list. There is just not quite enough info to say if his ephedrine metabolite in his tinkle means he is a part of doping culture, or just a dumbass who didn't read the rules. We also haven't smeared him, because frankly nobody has informed us that he is a participant in that culture. That's the thing, tests are so unreliable, that asking around to find who dopes is simply much safer. It's not about being fast, it's about being a doper. Just becaue a rider is fast doesn't mean they dope, just look at the heroes page - they're all fast, and all clean.

That's the real beauty of a system like raceclean, we are willing to tread the gray areas and tread carefully on issues like Zajicek's positive. But organizing bodies can't really do that, because they have hardline "official" rules. They had to give him three months based on the infraction - it wasn't like they could publicly humiliate him for being a dumbass but not give a punishment. The only rules raceclean MUST follow are basic logic and being skeptical of tips - hence the need for multiple distinct, reputable sources of information. -raceclean- Mr. Clean

Brent Chapman said...

Does being on mr on mean you don't use any drugs period?
(I mean I really dont want to stop my crack habit)

I did not see an exclusion list of what is "doping" and what is not. I assume they follow the UCI or Wada standards.

It's pretty hard to say who a doper is in California, I don't know too many racers men or women pros who have actually had a test performed. Theres a few, but far less than there should be.

I do support racing clean though. Concept seems good to promote it, but not sure if I would start listing names.

Anonymous said...

The tests are very unreliable, even so called 'positive' EPO tests have a huge variance between A and B samples. Not to mention people are learning how to microdose to avoid detection. You take a tiny shot each day, it clears the system in time for morning check ups.

Significnatly more than half of riders at the TDF are using something, but only one tests positive in 21 days? Say it with me, "false ngative".

People keep going bonkers over tests. Raceclean uses a more comprehensive specturm of information. Sure, tests are fine, but when we have over a dozen accounts of riders being appraoched by crawford, or crawford's coached athletes partaking in dope, you can learn more than the electrical current running through a cup of pee (epo test).

You have to realize that between all the pro riders out there you can learn who is doping - it's really not hard. People talk. Especially when they learn that someone is cheating them. I even get college students emailing in telling me about testosterone floating around the FLC squad under rick crawford. And it's not some inuendo. Many of the submitted tips aren't inuendo or rumor at all (and the good ones are the ones we act on) - it's some person who emails in and starts a dialogue, introduces him/herself, and says "this rider asked me for drugs x, and y". Period. Does it get any more clear than that?
-raceclean- Mr. Clean